The Abusive System You’ve Never Heard Of: Exposing How Family Courts Fail Survivors of Domestic Abuse
"You can feel like you’ve moved on, but years later, an abuser can drag you back into the system, and you have no choice but to fight." – Lara
Welcome back to wo0 pod, the unapologetic space where women refuse to be told what to wear or how to run their businesses. Hosted by Wendy Gannon (aka Wo0), this podcast is part of Female Five Million—a movement dedicated to empowering women to take control, own their space, and push back against the systems that seek to silence them.
In this powerful and deeply personal episode, Wendy is joined by Lara, an executive coach, mother, and survivor of domestic abuse and the UK family court system. Lara shares her three-year battle fighting for her children in a system that too often protects abusers and punishes victims. Lara has asked that we protect her privacy by sharing only her first name. We kindly ask that if you know Lara personally you respect her right to request that her story as an example of the flawed UK family court system remain the focus of this episode, not Lara personally.
This episode is absolutely crucial for any woman (or anyone supporting a woman) navigating family court, coercive control, or systemic injustice, as well as for anyone who wants to understand the shocking reality behind closed doors.
In This Episode - Lara & wo0 Discuss:
- The reality of family court – How the system is built to protect abusers, not victims
- Why women lose custody of their children – The shocking legal loopholes that leave mothers powerless
- The emotional and financial toll of fighting for your children – How the legal system is designed to wear women down
- The role of domestic abuse advocates – Why support networks are crucial for survival
- How family courts silence victims – Why cases are kept private and why that needs to change
- Breaking free and rebuilding life after court – Lara’s journey from survival to thriving
- Blowing up the system – Why reforming family courts should be on everyone’s radar
About Lara:
Lara is an executive coach, speaker, and mother of three who spent three years fighting for justice - and to protect her children - in the family court system. After enduring both domestic abuse and legal abuse, she is now sharing her story to advocate for systemic change and greater support for women navigating these battles. Lara has asked that we protect her privacy by sharing only her first name.
Resources & Support for Women in Family Court:
We know this episode covers deeply personal and challenging topics. If you or someone you know is navigating domestic abuse or family court, these organisations can help:
- Women’s Aid – www.womensaid.org.uk
- Refuge – www.refuge.org.uk
- Rights of Women (Legal Advice for Women) – www.rightsofwomen.org.uk
- Family Court Support & Advocacy – Find local support via Women's Aid
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Female Five Million is an unapologetic celebration of women who’ve faced male to female abuse, broken free, and are now thriving on their own terms. This is a story of empowerment and resilience against abuse and toxicity from men, in business and beyond. This is a multi-faceted project made up of two empowering photoshoots, conversations, research, exhibitions, art and a beautiful coffee table book.
“This project is deeply personal to me because I’ve been there. I know what it’s like to suffer domestic, sexual, financial, mental abuse and general misogyny in the workplace and my private life. I’ve been there but I’ve also found the strength to rise above and overcome it.
By speaking openly about my experiences, I’ve met so many incredible women who’ve faced similar challenges, yet they’ve come out the other side stronger, smarter, (more hilarious) and more determined than ever.
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Transcript
>> Wo0: Welcome to don't fucking Tell me what to wear or how to
Speaker:run my business. This is the
Speaker:Woopod.
Speaker:>> Lara: A female police officer who had attended an
Speaker:incident said no further action.
Speaker:Lara would not have been attacked if she had not
Speaker:attended the property.
Speaker:>> Wo0: I'm your host, Wendy Gannon, but most people call me
Speaker:Woo. I'm a photographer, adhder,
Speaker:female advocate, and let's be honest, an all
Speaker:round legend. Can you tell I didn't write this
Speaker:script?
Speaker:This podcast is part of Female5Million, a
Speaker:movement founded to empower women to step the fuck up,
Speaker:take control, and unapologetically own their
Speaker:space. It all started
Speaker:with some fucking Jebins LinkedIn post
Speaker:spouting some sexist bullshit about how women should dress
Speaker:to succeed in business. And you know what?
Speaker:Stuff like that really fucks me
Speaker:off. It really fucks me off.
Speaker:So I posted about it and that post ignited
Speaker:something bigger. A nationwide photography project,
Speaker:a full blown fucking movement. And now this
Speaker:podcast here on the Woopod.
Speaker:We're raising the voices of women who refuse to be told what to
Speaker:do. Women who are done playing by the rules and are now
Speaker:saying, don't fucking tell me what to wear or how to run my
Speaker:business. If you've ever been told to tone it down,
Speaker:dress more appropriately or. Or run your business like a
Speaker:man, fuck that.
Speaker:Expect raw, unfiltered conversations with women
Speaker:who have fought through sexism, abuse and
Speaker:outdated patriarchal bullshit to build success on their terms.
Speaker:all whilst wearing whatever the fuck they want.
Speaker:Oh, and there's more swearing than our producer is willing to
Speaker:beep out. Sorry, buckers. Speaking of
Speaker:which, you'll probably hear me ask producer Bacchus to chime in
Speaker:from time to time, because like I give a shit what
Speaker:she says. We've both got adhd. We bounce well off each other.
Speaker:Deal with it. We're here to
Speaker:celebrate women doing business their way and shine a spotlight on
Speaker:the incredible ways women are fighting back and lifting each other
Speaker:up. Because, to be honest, that's what it's all about.
Speaker:And for those who aren't able to speak up right now
Speaker:for whatever reason. I see you.
Speaker:Okay, let's crack on then.
Speaker:Hi, everybody, and welcome back to the
Speaker:Woopod, the Don't Tell Me what to Wear or
Speaker:How to run my Business podcast series.
Speaker:I am joined today by Lara
Speaker:*censored* who I have known.
Speaker:How long have we known each other?
Speaker:>> Lara: Probably before I was too old to legally be
Speaker:going into a nightclub, so quite.
Speaker:>> Wo0: I love that. So it's been many, many years,
Speaker:but we lost contact for A good few years and moved
Speaker:recently, recently come back in each other's
Speaker:lives. I wanted to talk to
Speaker:Lara specifically on the podcast
Speaker:because she's gone through bit of
Speaker:a shitter, a bit of a shitter
Speaker:with the public, with the family court
Speaker:process, etc. So we
Speaker:will be talking a little bit about that. Hi
Speaker:Lara, do you want to introduce yourself a little
Speaker:bit?
Speaker:>> Lara: We'll do so yeah. Like I said, I've known Wendy
Speaker:since I was a teenager, for some
Speaker:time and I didn't know a huge amount of the Bartless
Speaker:podcast. But Wendy asked me impromptu, I think
Speaker:only last week and because it was Wendy, I said yes
Speaker:and here we are. but in terms of, I guess myself, I'm
Speaker:a mum, so I'm a mum of three. I've got two older
Speaker:boys and a little three year old girl. So that was a
Speaker:lockdown, decision that, you know, still working out how good a life
Speaker:decision that was or not given the older
Speaker:boys are now 16 and 13. I work
Speaker:as an executive coach and that's after a ah,
Speaker:20 year career in financial services.
Speaker:>> Wo0: Thank you. so
Speaker:talk to me a little bit about your
Speaker:experiences with family
Speaker:court and how you
Speaker:got there, if that's all right.
Speaker:>> Lara: Oh goodness. If I could, if I could easily tell
Speaker:you how I, you
Speaker:know we could be here for days.
Speaker:But my experiences, so I
Speaker:unfortunately as many people do have
Speaker:experienced a very toxic and abusive
Speaker:relationship and that was with an ex
Speaker:partner, happens to be the father of my two eldest children
Speaker:and somebody I met at quite a young age. So I was
Speaker:only I believe Ah, 2021 when we
Speaker:first had contact and we had a relatively long term
Speaker:relationship. It produced two amazing children.
Speaker:But unfortunately from very, very early on in that
Speaker:relationship it turned incredibly toxic. And
Speaker:I won't go into every detail. I'm sure people that have
Speaker:been there sort of know how it can go. But
Speaker:those that haven't, I describe it as, for anyone
Speaker:that's lived through that, they really have seen experience felt like
Speaker:ah, the depths of humanity and if you've
Speaker:experienced that you've survived it, you've come out the other side.
Speaker:There's probably very little you can't do. And I
Speaker:thought that like, I thought that I had experienced the worst.
Speaker:So one of the hardest things is leaving. I think the next
Speaker:hardest thing is staying left from that.
Speaker:And then I thought I was done and we had you know, probably
Speaker:a chunk of time where we still needed to have a
Speaker:level of contact because you know, Two, two children,
Speaker:a result of our relationship. but I thought
Speaker:I'd experienced the worst I could possibly experience.
Speaker:And then I had the misfortune of
Speaker:getting involved in the family court system. And that
Speaker:unfortunately came six years past
Speaker:separation. And I think this is a really important thing for
Speaker:people to understand that you can feel like you're done,
Speaker:you can feel like you have a completely new life and that you've
Speaker:moved on. But six years post
Speaker:separation I met my fabulous new partner who is the
Speaker:father of, my little three year old. And
Speaker:that created a reaction in my
Speaker:ex partner which was. Made him double down on
Speaker:some of the behaviours that he'd potentially sort of
Speaker:in the past. so what came next was
Speaker:completely out of the blue, you know, like one day
Speaker:a family, court hearing going.
Speaker:He has applied for full custody of your children.
Speaker:And, you are now in this process and you
Speaker:are in the process. And once that application
Speaker:has been made, there is nothing you can do
Speaker:to not be in the process. You don't get an option to
Speaker:go. Nothing to see here. Not something our
Speaker:family requires. If somebody makes an
Speaker:application, you are in the process.
Speaker:Myself and my family were in that process for
Speaker:three years. Whoa. It
Speaker:was through lockdown for parts of, was
Speaker:through the entirety of my pregnancy with my
Speaker:third child and it was for the first year of her
Speaker:life. So I thought I had
Speaker:experienced everything I could experience for, every.
Speaker:Anybody that is going through the family court
Speaker:system. My goodness. There isn't like a level of
Speaker:like compassion, empathy I can't extend
Speaker:because I can hand on heart, say it
Speaker:is the most abusive
Speaker:aspect of abuse I've ever experienced.
Speaker:>> Wo0: Fuck. Like,
Speaker:I can't even, like. So I was really, really,
Speaker:really lucky that Emily's dad
Speaker:kind of stepped back. Like there was never any of
Speaker:that. he didn't, he just didn't
Speaker:really care, to be honest. so I'm,
Speaker:I can't even contemplate
Speaker:what that was like. can you tell
Speaker:me what the process is like? Was
Speaker:it, was it the actual
Speaker:court thing that was.
Speaker:Or him while the court
Speaker:was going on? Can you like give us a bit more detail? What was
Speaker:the.
Speaker:>> Lara: I've spent a lot of time really, you know, because I was in
Speaker:it for so long and I spent a lot of time really thinking about
Speaker:like, what is it like, what makes it so awful? Like, why is
Speaker:this so horrendous? Why? And you end up down really awful
Speaker:rabbit holes actually when you start to lift
Speaker:the bonnet on it because you hear horror
Speaker:stories you hear absolute horror stories
Speaker:of abused women
Speaker:who lose their children, you know, like, have no
Speaker:contact with their children. And it's purely because
Speaker:the system and process has worn them down.
Speaker:And I've met some of those women, I've spoken to some
Speaker:of those women, I've sat in support groups with some
Speaker:of those women. And I always maintain that
Speaker:from, you know, my perspective, there were so many
Speaker:things going in my favour. And I don't mean this
Speaker:in, an arrogant way. I mean it sort of as in,
Speaker:I.
Speaker:>> Wo0: Like, there's no arrogance. Like, you are
Speaker:great.
Speaker:>> Lara: You know, like, I. I had financial resources.
Speaker:I was always, you know, like, employed and had
Speaker:financial independence and resources. I
Speaker:had a great partner, I have a great family, I have a great
Speaker:support network. I'm well educated. So
Speaker:a lot of the legal lingo and
Speaker:the things that feel really exclusive and almost like,
Speaker:impossible to navigate, it was still
Speaker:really challenging. But I. I had the ability
Speaker:to go. When they're saying that, what it actually
Speaker:means is this.
Speaker:>> Wo0: Wow.
Speaker:>> Lara: It's very intimidating. And so if you think of
Speaker:it, almost the flip side of that, yeah,
Speaker:they were the resources I had. And there were
Speaker:moments where literally, not just
Speaker:figuratively, I had to scrape myself up off the
Speaker:floor. So at, each one of those moments,
Speaker:I sat there and almost the pep talk I gave myself
Speaker:was, imagine if I didn't have these things.
Speaker:imagine if I had nowhere to live.
Speaker:>> Wo0: Imagine.
Speaker:>> Lara: Imagine if I wasn't educated in the way I was. Imagine
Speaker:if I didn't feel a sense of agency, where
Speaker:I don't feel intimidated just because someone's got a job
Speaker:title or they're in a supposed position of
Speaker:power. When you get
Speaker:a, quite frankly, abusive
Speaker:letter from a lawyer saying, these
Speaker:are things that we are applying for and these are things
Speaker:that you have done and these are things that we are claiming
Speaker:and we are, as part of this process,
Speaker:telling you that. That 10 years of abuse
Speaker:you experienced, for which, Wendy, there are
Speaker:police reports, there are medical records, there are
Speaker:financial statements, there are. You know, I could give you every
Speaker:piece of documentation to any reasonable
Speaker:human would go, wow, that happened.
Speaker:But they're going, it didn't happen. You're a liar.
Speaker:And the system is set up to allow
Speaker:oxygen to be given to that. It is.
Speaker:It's truly horrendous. And I just. And you get
Speaker:access to a lot of stuff, right? So you get access to things
Speaker:that you've maybe not even been privy to
Speaker:in the past. So I got access to a
Speaker:maternity record of mine. you know, so you
Speaker:don't. You don't get your whole maternity fight unless you request
Speaker:it at some point. I got access to a maternity record
Speaker:of mine and I saw the midwife's notes that had been written in
Speaker:there. And I saw the midwife's notes where
Speaker:I remember, you know, about 30
Speaker:minutes after having had a child, they'd made a
Speaker:handwritten note going, Lara had
Speaker:flagged on the system as a
Speaker:victim of abuse. And I had a
Speaker:conversation with her to see if she was safe to go home. And
Speaker:my reaction had been, I don't want to talk about it like, I don't want to talk
Speaker:about it like, I'm okay, I'm fine, I'm fine.
Speaker:And, not because I was fine, but because
Speaker:out of the blue, this question has been asked. And, you know, as you
Speaker:will well know, Wendsey, you spend so much of your
Speaker:life trying not to let anyone see it.
Speaker:So the fact that somebody was asking me, I was like,
Speaker:oh, my God, is everyone in this hospital aware? Does everyone
Speaker:know? So, you know, my only reaction in that moment could
Speaker:have been, no, no, nothing to see here. And
Speaker:similarly, I had a police report that,
Speaker:I'd never seen. I'd never seen the details of.
Speaker:And a female police officer who had
Speaker:attended an incident wrote up her report
Speaker:and at the end of it, said, no further
Speaker:action. And the reason there was no further action.
Speaker:And this was a female police officer had
Speaker:written, Lara would not have been attacked
Speaker:if she had not attended the property.
Speaker:And that was the reason that the police took no further action.
Speaker:Lara would not have been attacked had she not attended the
Speaker:property. So not only is that
Speaker:wrong to levels I can't describe, if I was going to,
Speaker:you know, your house, a public place. I
Speaker:attended a property. I owned. I owned
Speaker:the property. It was my house.
Speaker:Sorry, it was. It was
Speaker:my house. I purchased it. So if
Speaker:you can imagine that the end
Speaker:result of this process is the
Speaker:most precious thing to you in the world,
Speaker:and there is a risk that that may be taken
Speaker:away from you. And, throughout, you have
Speaker:to navigate professionals, paid
Speaker:professionals with fancy job titles
Speaker:and positions of power, telling you
Speaker:that you're a liar, even in the face of all of that
Speaker:information, it's really challenging to put
Speaker:into words, just how horrendous
Speaker:the system is. And it stays as bad as it
Speaker:is because it's sealed, because it's secret.
Speaker:You can't get access to it in the way that you
Speaker:could a public court case, you know, like a criminal
Speaker:case or tribunal. So no one's allowed to
Speaker:attend, you know, so it's all behind closed
Speaker:doors.
Speaker:>> Wo0: Are you joking?
Speaker:Okay, so, so much from that.
Speaker:First of all, what
Speaker:person who's being abused says, yes, I'm
Speaker:being abused. Especially
Speaker:when you've just had a child of the person who's abusing you
Speaker:and you're about to go home with them. Like,
Speaker:how they can take that? I know
Speaker:somebody. I'm not going to mention any names. I love her
Speaker:dearly. She had just come
Speaker:out of an abusive
Speaker:relationship, has a young girl
Speaker:with the person who's abusing her
Speaker:and he's trying to get access
Speaker:and he was abusing both of them.
Speaker:He. He was allowed to
Speaker:have all of her medical records.
Speaker:What the is that about? So he
Speaker:can say,
Speaker:oh, this person is now on
Speaker:antidepressants, which a lot of people
Speaker:are. And good, quite frankly, if it's helping
Speaker:you. I am. I'm on high dose of
Speaker:renal vaccine. Not afraid to say it, which is
Speaker:actually helping people. But he can use that against
Speaker:her. How is that allowed
Speaker:when you've got report like
Speaker:the harass. There's harassment, right. And they just keep
Speaker:coming at you and wearing you down
Speaker:and you've got nothing left and then they can take
Speaker:what you've been.
Speaker:>> Lara: Ah.
Speaker:>> Wo0: I just. Sorry, I just can't, like, doc.
Speaker:Doctors should not. You should not be able to access people's
Speaker:medical records, especially not somebody that you are.
Speaker:That has been abused. I can't even.
Speaker:>> Lara: It's almost incomprehensible, isn't it? And
Speaker:particularly when you have, experienced a
Speaker:relationship of that nature and you understand the dynamics of
Speaker:it and it's why, you know, I truly
Speaker:described it. And it sounds, it sounds crazy,
Speaker:but there were moments in the process where I said, you know,
Speaker:at parts of the process I had legal support. And then at parts of the
Speaker:process, I decided that I actually found it, bizarrely
Speaker:less stressful to do it myself. Yeah. And I
Speaker:remember speaking to, a legal advocate
Speaker:and saying, I don't think you get it, but
Speaker:I don't think you get, like, how bad this is. As
Speaker:in, I would prefer to
Speaker:go back to literally having someone punch me in the face
Speaker:every day. Yeah, yeah, do this. But I
Speaker:don't think you quite comprehend. And I think the
Speaker:piece that I came out of, just so
Speaker:disillusioned, and horrified and almost like
Speaker:wanting to blow up the system over,
Speaker:was people making a lot of money
Speaker:out of this. You know, there are highly
Speaker:paid lawyers, barristers, making a
Speaker:Lot of money out of this system with some of
Speaker:the most vulnerable people you could imagine.
Speaker:And like I said, I was in a position where, don't get me wrong,
Speaker:the financial implications were severe for me as
Speaker:well. But it. I didn't need to sell my house. I could still
Speaker:go on holiday. You know, I was in a really privileged position. so
Speaker:there's like
Speaker:0.5% that's in that position.
Speaker:>> Wo0: So there's women out there who have
Speaker:lived this abuse
Speaker:and have literally done nothing
Speaker:wrong, probably nothing, but try and please the
Speaker:person who's abusing them. they've
Speaker:got something wonderful out of that
Speaker:abuse. They're. They're beautiful
Speaker:children and
Speaker:they're like,
Speaker:I'm so sorry, I can't. I can't. Like, I'm just.
Speaker:I just want to cry, honestly.
Speaker:>> Lara: And you. You speak to any, one. There are some
Speaker:positive shoots, right? So if you can imagine
Speaker:some of the phenomenal work that domestic abuse
Speaker:charities do and things of that nature, there were a lot
Speaker:of, domestic abuse advocates that will
Speaker:be supporting women right through the process. So they're
Speaker:not legally trained, they're not legal representatives, but they're there
Speaker:from, you know, almost, you know, like emotional support and
Speaker:helping them navigate, you know, what they're going through.
Speaker:And if you speak to any one of those, anyone that
Speaker:has ever supported a woman like, going through this,
Speaker:I would say that there is a really consistent
Speaker:story you will hear. And that really consistent
Speaker:story is that many of the other
Speaker:trained professionals in the system do not
Speaker:understand the dynamics, the
Speaker:signs, how abuse manifests, and it
Speaker:therefore ties these poor women up
Speaker:like a pretzel, you know, like, as in they don't know whether they're coming or
Speaker:going. So a really repeated story
Speaker:is when you're going through something like
Speaker:this, you keep the child at the centre of it.
Speaker:And how the court might observe you keeping
Speaker:the child at the centre of it is going, former
Speaker:abusive partner, who. I fear being
Speaker:around my children because I know what you're capable
Speaker:of. I will demonstrate that I
Speaker:can be superhuman, not be
Speaker:triggered, not be scared, not be afraid of you in any way
Speaker:that I can communicate to you normally that I will share care with
Speaker:you, that I will happily encourage my children to go and
Speaker:spend a week with you. And if you don't do
Speaker:that, what you're accused of is parental
Speaker:alienation. So if you go, I am protecting
Speaker:my child because they are, unsafe. you're accused of
Speaker:parental alienation if you
Speaker:do do it, you know, so I've heard a story
Speaker:from the same woman who took that approach
Speaker:of, I am so fearful of this person, I
Speaker:will not allow my child to be in their presence. They got accused of
Speaker:parental alienation. They got threatened with
Speaker:losing custody of their child if they continued.
Speaker:So they did attempt to work on some form
Speaker:of shared care arrangement. And then they got accused of putting
Speaker:their child at risk.
Speaker:And it is that shambolic.
Speaker:You know, it sounds like I'm almost sharing
Speaker:a, you know, like a work of fiction, but
Speaker:it is that shambolic. And the stories are repeated
Speaker:again and again and again and again. And
Speaker:unfortunately, because of so many of the other, like,
Speaker:systemic issues in our society, there
Speaker:are more judges that are mental. There are more men
Speaker:that have access to financial resources to pay
Speaker:for legal professionals in court. And if
Speaker:a man says they want to see their children, they're
Speaker:treated like a freaking hero. So the whole system
Speaker:goes, what an awesome human.
Speaker:>> Wo0: As a man.
Speaker:>> Lara: And there is an assumption that, you know,
Speaker:I am, I'm not just degree educated. I've got five
Speaker:freaking degrees. And the reason I say that is
Speaker:because even somebody as educated as me
Speaker:in the System and a PhD executive
Speaker:level in financial services, but even
Speaker:somebody with that profile, that demographic,
Speaker:I was portrayed as this caricature of
Speaker:this hysterical, irrational,
Speaker:unreasonable partner who was in
Speaker:conflict with someone who was entirely
Speaker:reasonable.
Speaker:>> Wo0: Okay, I'm so
Speaker:sorry that that happened to you, and I'm so sorry to
Speaker:anybody else that that's happened to. It sounds
Speaker:like a lot of people. And when you
Speaker:said earlier, that women have lost
Speaker:their children because they just couldn't do it.
Speaker:It's just heartbreaking.
Speaker:What can we do?
Speaker:>> Lara: I think it starts from, this is the first
Speaker:time I have publicly spoken about it. And I have to
Speaker:be very sensitive as to, like, how,
Speaker:because of the system is
Speaker:private, it's sealed, it goes on behind
Speaker:closed doors. I, also have to be
Speaker:really sensitive because it's not just my story, but like, it
Speaker:impacts children, it impacts other people. And
Speaker:I think that's, that's part of the battle that, you know, like, the system is
Speaker:set up in a way where it's
Speaker:almost, it's not, it's not spoken
Speaker:about, it's not reported. People don't understand the stories. You
Speaker:know, like once in a blue moon, you will see an
Speaker:expose in a newspaper, you know, or you will
Speaker:see maybe a short documentary that's exploring
Speaker:the system. But I really think it starts from talking about
Speaker:it. I, really think it's then
Speaker:about helping people to like, advocate you know, so
Speaker:one of the things that I feel really passionately about
Speaker:is that the, the legal system is
Speaker:intentionally exclusive. And it's
Speaker:intentionally exclusive because people profit from it being
Speaker:exclusive. Yeah, you can't understand a
Speaker:form if you don't know how to fill it in.
Speaker:Then you need to pay someone to do it for you. And I
Speaker:think if there was one change that needed to
Speaker:be made, it's the accessibility of the
Speaker:process. You shouldn't need to be a trained legal
Speaker:professional to have a grown up
Speaker:conversation about the outcomes for
Speaker:your children. You shouldn't need to
Speaker:pay somebody to understand the implications of what
Speaker:form you're filling in, what you're saying in court,
Speaker:what words the judge is using, and if you understand
Speaker:what you're saying yes to or no to. So I'll give you a
Speaker:really, really practical example of that.
Speaker:Ah, There are many points
Speaker:I've since learned, unfortunately in a legal
Speaker:proceeding that ideally
Speaker:judges don't like to make the decision. Like
Speaker:ideally they like both parties to come to a
Speaker:conc or something because ultimately that
Speaker:minimises risk for them. Right, like, so if you and I have a
Speaker:dispute and we agree and we get to a
Speaker:consensus, the judge doesn't have to make a ruling.
Speaker:And if the judge doesn't have to make a ruling, no one at any
Speaker:point in time can ever say they are wrong or they got it
Speaker:wrong. Never be challenged. So
Speaker:when you understand that dynamic, what you then observe
Speaker:over time, particularly if you're a litigant in person,
Speaker:which is the term used for someone representing
Speaker:themselves, is that legal professionals
Speaker:on the other side will speak to you in a way,
Speaker:will communicate to you in a way that almost backs
Speaker:you in this corner to go, yes, I agree. Because once
Speaker:you've agreed it goes to court and what happens is
Speaker:we've reached consensus on this topic and it never needs
Speaker:to be, you know, it never needs to be opined upon by a
Speaker:judge. A ruling doesn't need to be made. And I had a couple
Speaker:of moments where I still had legal representation
Speaker:in place. And even with, like I said, not
Speaker:necessarily being intimidated by authority, being
Speaker:relatively well educated, being able to understand things
Speaker:as they came in, I had a couple of moments where I said to my legal
Speaker:representative, do I have to do that? Like, do I have to say
Speaker:yes? And she was like, oh God no, no, you can contest
Speaker:it. And if you can test that position, then it needs to go to
Speaker:a hearing. And I'm like, right, but it's
Speaker:just a tiny example of
Speaker:how, legal professionals in that system,
Speaker:I personally believe not all, but quite
Speaker:frankly there is scope for people to abuse
Speaker:their position of power and they can abuse it with
Speaker:very, very vulnerable people and at the end of the
Speaker:day they pick up a paycheck for doing so.
Speaker:>> Wo0: I'm just thinking about how I would cope in that
Speaker:situation. As somebody who's
Speaker:neurodivergent, if somebody would ask me something
Speaker:like that, I'd automatically just say yes and not understand
Speaker:and not say that I don't understand and just go along with
Speaker:it so that.
Speaker:>> Lara: They don't just ask. Imagine as well. So they don't just as a
Speaker:reasonable human go, Wendy, I was
Speaker:thinking, you know, we need to get a bus. Should we do it at 10 or
Speaker:11? I'd like 11. And you go 11
Speaker:o'clock. You know, the tone of it is more
Speaker:a, you need to consent to a shared
Speaker:care arrangement here or we will
Speaker:apply for full custody and you will lose for these
Speaker:reasons because you're a liar on these ten things.
Speaker:>> Wo0: Oh, well, then I'll go for shared custody.
Speaker:>> Lara: Yeah. And I, you know, I sort of, I laugh because it is that
Speaker:extreme, you know, and that is the experience
Speaker:as somebody going through that process.
Speaker:So if you can imagine, you know, you've been there, right? You
Speaker:know, if you have, if you've been minutes out
Speaker:of an abusive relationship, you're not most
Speaker:resourceful, you know, you're not seeing the
Speaker:world with clarity. So how many people,
Speaker:when faced with that and not the funds to have
Speaker:an aggressive lawyer on the other side, you know,
Speaker:advocating for them, go, I don't even know what's being
Speaker:said. Like, I don't even know what you're asking and I don't know the
Speaker:implications of saying yes or no to it. So I guess
Speaker:in answer to your question, firstly, I think it's talking about it, but
Speaker:secondly, I think we have to find
Speaker:ways to not make, the
Speaker:legalistic approach to this,
Speaker:the, the front and centre. You know, it's not, it's
Speaker:not legal expertise that should be the deciding
Speaker:factor in determining if a child.
Speaker:>> Wo0: No. You know, no, no, it shouldn't.
Speaker:>> Lara: Social workers, it's, it's domestic violence
Speaker:advocates. So the right voices aren't, the ones in the
Speaker:room actually influencing these outcomes.
Speaker:>> Wo0: So were any of those people that you just mentioned, social workers,
Speaker:domestic violence advocates, etc. Were any of
Speaker:those people involved in the family court
Speaker:process and was.
Speaker:>> Lara: They can be, they can be in different cases. I
Speaker:personally had support from, a domestic abuse
Speaker:advocate. But it was less, it, like I said,
Speaker:they're not a lawyer, so it was less focused on legal process.
Speaker:It was much more as almost support in
Speaker:parallel to it.
Speaker:>> Wo0: Okay, right, so they're supporting you rather than
Speaker:hired domestic abuse person from the judge.
Speaker:What is going on here? Right, so
Speaker:like. Okay, so we need to get that changed.
Speaker:Okay, like how, how is that even a thing?
Speaker:Like, how long has this been? How long has this been a thing, the domestic,
Speaker:the family court? Like probably since
Speaker:1900.
Speaker:>> Lara: I don't. Don't even know. But, I don't even
Speaker:know. But is. And
Speaker:I, you know, don't profess to have seen
Speaker:every form of wrongdoing and
Speaker:corruption. Horrible thing in the country. Right. But of
Speaker:the things I have experienced, it's the worst thing I've
Speaker:seen.
Speaker:>> Wo0: When was family court created?
Speaker:You're not going to believe it.
Speaker:2013.
Speaker:Are you joking? 2013.
Speaker:The Family Court was created by Part 2 of the Crime
Speaker:and Courts Act. 2013, merging the
Speaker:Family Law functions of the county courts and magistrates
Speaker:courts into one.
Speaker:Family law was introduced in
Speaker:1996.
Speaker:but obviously it's been going on for much further than that. I've
Speaker:literally, listeners, I've literally just googled when was
Speaker:family court created? So, and I'm just reading that
Speaker:page. So
Speaker:Wikipedia says 2013, when they were
Speaker:merged. Wikipedia says
Speaker:Family Law act was 1996,
Speaker:but then there's dates from 1949.
Speaker:Wow. Okay, so it's not like
Speaker:it's old.
Speaker:right. I. I have no
Speaker:words. I'm so sorry. I just. I
Speaker:am, I am shook.
Speaker:>> Annabelle: Sorry, I.
Speaker:>> Lara: You.
Speaker:>> Annabelle: We can cut this out.
Speaker:>> Wo0: No, go, please.
Speaker:>> Annabelle: No, I was thinking, Do you know what
Speaker:really pisses me off? When it's always the
Speaker:not all men. Men who love to pipe up
Speaker:and say, oh, you know, like all these
Speaker:feminists moaning about how unfair life is to them.
Speaker:But whenever there's a family dispute, the
Speaker:courts always favour the women. The women always
Speaker:get all the rights to their kids.
Speaker:>> Lara: No, fuck off. that's inaccurate and I find it
Speaker:so frustrating that. Exactly. That is,
Speaker:if you were to pick a narrative, you know, like, if you were
Speaker:to go, what's in folklore? What's in like
Speaker:mainstream media? It would be that. It would be, oh,
Speaker:don't worry, because they will always favour women. The actual
Speaker:fact of the matter is that the presumption
Speaker:the family court work on is that
Speaker:shared care, so like 50, 50 care is
Speaker:in the best interest of the child unless there's a
Speaker:reason for it not to Be and the threshold to
Speaker:get to that reason not to be. So there might be something really pragmatic,
Speaker:right? You know, I might live in London
Speaker:and my ex partner live in Ireland and in which case
Speaker:they would go shared care is not, not feasible. So
Speaker:we need to make a decision. But the
Speaker:threshold to get to that point of going
Speaker:shared care is not in the interest of the child
Speaker:is, is like off the charts insane. Like
Speaker:it's that you know what you need to evidence what
Speaker:you need to demonstrate so that folklore of
Speaker:women always get favoured in this system. It's simply
Speaker:not true. It's simply not the presumption that,
Speaker:that corporates upon.
Speaker:>> Wo0: I agree that shared care is
Speaker:probably the best in situations where it is the
Speaker:best. Right.
Speaker:>> Lara: But really if you were in a
Speaker:functional situation you would have sorted that out
Speaker:anyway. You would be there, you know. So
Speaker:if you imagine and this is where my, the biggest frustration, you
Speaker:know when you say about what needs to shift if you're
Speaker:in court, no logical, reasonable
Speaker:person wants to spend their time and money doing that and putting them
Speaker:right, right. So if you're there,
Speaker:there's a dysfunction that exists.
Speaker:So the expertise that's actually needed
Speaker:in that system is what is that
Speaker:dysfunction? How do we understand it so
Speaker:that we can deliver the best outcomes for a child? It's
Speaker:not a. How can lawyers argue to
Speaker:win a case for an abuser? But that's not
Speaker:expertise.
Speaker:>> Wo0: No, no it's not.
Speaker:Oh my God, that's so bad. That is so
Speaker:bad. I'm gonna
Speaker:try and make it nicer to finish
Speaker:off.
Speaker:I like I, I
Speaker:genuinely had no
Speaker:idea about that.
Speaker:We're gonna find some
Speaker:resources and put them in the show notes
Speaker:for people who are going through that and they need some
Speaker:help. Now if you wouldn't mind sharing
Speaker:afterwards some of the people that
Speaker:helped you. I'll do some research afterwards and find some
Speaker:other people and we'll put that in the show notes.
Speaker:Wowzer. thank you so much for sharing that story Lara.
Speaker:as you said that was a little while ago. Can
Speaker:you tell us the outcome
Speaker:and how things are now?
Speaker:>> Lara: Yeah, no for sure. So after I think in
Speaker:total it consumed about three years
Speaker:of our life. So it consumed three years of her life
Speaker:and at the end of 2023,
Speaker:so October 2023 we had a final
Speaker:hearing. So I decided to
Speaker:represent myself in the final hearing.
Speaker:which was brutal. Not going to
Speaker:lie, you know, I was cross examined by a trained
Speaker:barrister for the best part of an entire day.
Speaker:I had to, give evidence in Chief
Speaker:in terms of putting my case forward myself.
Speaker:And then you had to conclude with
Speaker:a, you m. Know, final position. If you know, what is it, what
Speaker:is it I'm asking for? And why should, why should the
Speaker:judge, you know, make this ruling? We
Speaker:were, and I say fortunate. We were fortunate to get the
Speaker:right outcome. And the right outcome was
Speaker:that the judge did determine that my ex
Speaker:partner was not somebody that should be having contact with the
Speaker:children. the judge did make
Speaker:specific findings of fact around,
Speaker:that certain abuse had happened in the past. And it's a
Speaker:really important part of the process
Speaker:because one, a finding of fact is made,
Speaker:it exists forever. So if somebody ever
Speaker:attempts to take you back to court in the future,
Speaker:that exists and that will be referred to.
Speaker:And a fancy, expensive barrister can't
Speaker:come in and tell you it didn't happen. So it was a really important
Speaker:outcome to get that in writing from a
Speaker:judge. unfortunately what happens when you
Speaker:get a final outcome is that people can appeal.
Speaker:And this is a really like, challenging part of the
Speaker:process that again, probably isn't so well
Speaker:known. Somebody can make an application to Family Court
Speaker:every month of the week if they want, you know, every month of the year if they
Speaker:want. So if you are dealing with an abusive
Speaker:partner, they're going to do that for somebody
Speaker:to do an application and do another one, get an outcome and appeal
Speaker:it. So my, ex partner did appeal.
Speaker:that hung over us for the best part of another
Speaker:year. So it was scheduled to be heard
Speaker:in August of this year. he had
Speaker:gone radio silent, like in the intervening period.
Speaker:So I know his movements. I dealt with him for so long
Speaker:and I think when you've dealt with someone where you have to be highly
Speaker:vigilant, you get quite good at sort of reading them and
Speaker:what they do and how they do it. so I assumed he was
Speaker:not going to turn up to the appeal. But the really
Speaker:frustrating thing is even knowing that, I
Speaker:still have to prepare for it and I still have to allocate time to it
Speaker:and I still have to turn up. So I did turn up
Speaker:and he didn't and the judge therefore
Speaker:dismissed it. There is a particular order
Speaker:you can apply for which is
Speaker:there to mitigate abusive people abusing the
Speaker:system, which is to go like, it's in
Speaker:effect, not giving them the right to make further
Speaker:applications. And I requested that from the judge.
Speaker:Unfortunately, that was not, that was not granted.
Speaker:but we are now at the stage where we
Speaker:have you know, since. Since the final hearing in
Speaker:2023, we've lived happily as a family. The boys
Speaker:love their younger sister. They're thriving in
Speaker:school. they are doing, you know, they're
Speaker:brilliant hobbies outside of school. So they're both like, really into
Speaker:basketball. They're amazing at it. They're doing well
Speaker:academically. I made the decision at
Speaker:the start of 2024, to work
Speaker:independently. And a big move for
Speaker:me because I feel that even though I hadn't been
Speaker:in that relationship the whole time, almost the
Speaker:stability of being in a corporate and the things that come
Speaker:around from that, you know, because you, you get a
Speaker:monthly salary and you get all of your benefits and you've got that
Speaker:security. I felt for the first time that I was
Speaker:in a position to actually sort of like, follow my passion and go, do
Speaker:you know what? I've always wanted to work for myself and now I can.
Speaker:so it is, it's a really good news
Speaker:story as an outcome. We never should have had to live
Speaker:through it and we certainly shouldn't have had to live through
Speaker:it to the, just the
Speaker:horrendous treatment that we did. but
Speaker:I'll forever be grateful for the outcome we got. And
Speaker:I'd always try to look back on moments and go, look,
Speaker:if you can take the learning from anything, then it's not a
Speaker:wasted experience. And there's so much to
Speaker:learn. Like, if I had not experienced
Speaker:this, I wouldn't know it existed because it is private,
Speaker:it is secret, it is sealed. And I am a
Speaker:very resourceful person. So I'm not a
Speaker:good person to know about this.
Speaker:I'm not a good person to know about it because I can't unsee it and
Speaker:I won't unsee it. And I don't have the grand
Speaker:plan yet. But, you know, I think I mentioned to you in
Speaker:passing, Wendy, I was at the beginning of the year,
Speaker:I always sit down and write intentions. And I try
Speaker:to do it without sort of the shoulds, the woods. What do other people
Speaker:expect from me? And I've got, I've got obviously my own, like,
Speaker:professional Pursuits. but at the top of the page
Speaker:I wrote blow up the family court system
Speaker:because it is so wrong and it is so
Speaker:abusive and almost no one knows about it. And
Speaker:everyone should. And I think if you
Speaker:describe the ins and outs of it to any reasonable
Speaker:person, there isn't anyone, that would say that
Speaker:that is how it should function.
Speaker:>> Wo0: I'm in awe of you
Speaker:for coming on and Talking about it. Thank
Speaker:you so much for sharing your experience,
Speaker:for putting that on your
Speaker:intentions at the top. Like, we
Speaker:can't do it, like, supporting, sticking up
Speaker:for, speaking for. Because I
Speaker:think also, like, a lot of people,
Speaker:like, we don't talk about abuse the
Speaker:where we should. I'm sure. I'm
Speaker:guessing that people don't want to talk about the fact that
Speaker:they've had to go to family court and potentially lost
Speaker:their child.
Speaker:>> Lara: And people like that. People do. That's the thing that people.
Speaker:>> Wo0: Yeah. Like, I think it's.
Speaker:People don't even. Like, if, If a social worker comes to
Speaker:your house when you've got a child, you don't want to tell anybody
Speaker:that because then they're going to think that you're a bad parent.
Speaker:So. So thank you so much for
Speaker:talking about it. As
Speaker:I said, we're going to put some resources in the show
Speaker:notes and
Speaker:yes, amazing that your
Speaker:story and your family are living
Speaker:together beautifully now and I'm so
Speaker:happy for you. But, yeah, just,
Speaker:I am thinking about those that aren't.
Speaker:>> Lara: You know, you mentioned about some of the support. I attended
Speaker:a programme as I was going through and it was all done remotely
Speaker:because it was that period of COVID where you couldn't meet anyone in
Speaker:person. but there was a programme
Speaker:called Me and you, Mum, I think it
Speaker:was called, and I believe Women's Aid.
Speaker:Women's Aid created it, but it's delivered
Speaker:via lots of local domestic abuse charities
Speaker:as well. often with domestic abuse
Speaker:support. Women's Aid is like the big sort of strap
Speaker:line, but actually a lot of provision happens locally
Speaker:from sort of like local charities that are, you know, sort
Speaker:of associated with. With Women's Aid. and I
Speaker:just never forget being in that little support group and
Speaker:feeling like I was at the lowest ebb, but then
Speaker:hearing other people's experiences that just didn't have some
Speaker:of the resources I had. And we did, like, the last
Speaker:session, I think it was like 10 weeks. And one of the women
Speaker:on it, because we were all sort of doing this. This is what I got from it and
Speaker:thank you and goodbye. And she said,
Speaker:I'm really going to miss attending this
Speaker:because you are the only people I speak to all week,
Speaker:apart from my daughter. And, you know when you're just like, I'm done,
Speaker:but I don't, like, I don't even know where to go because
Speaker:I'm feeling the way I'm feeling and I'm about to
Speaker:step out of this room to my partner and I can pick up
Speaker:the phone to my dad or my mom or my friends and I've got a
Speaker:job and I've got, you know, I've got all of these sort of
Speaker:tentacles in different parts of life
Speaker:that keep me, like, afloat
Speaker:and I can't. And I know it sounds awful, but you know when
Speaker:you're like one of a group of 12 and I'm like, I barely remember
Speaker:your name yet you're saying people you speak
Speaker:to, like in the, week, and it just gave you that
Speaker:sense of the. The loneliness
Speaker:of people going through, but some of those processes
Speaker:and the lack of support and even like the
Speaker:step to reach out and be on that programme in the
Speaker:first place. And I was like, my goodness, there is always
Speaker:someone worse off. Like, always someone worse off.
Speaker:>> Wo0: like, I don't. I wish I could change it now with
Speaker:just like a wave of a magic wand.
Speaker:>> Lara: One day I would love for there to
Speaker:be, an app to
Speaker:help you do the family call system, you know, so
Speaker:like, even down to the grounds of like.
Speaker:So as an example, I attend a hearing
Speaker:and if you want special measures in a hearing, and what
Speaker:special measures might be is I want to attend
Speaker:remotely because I don't want to be in the same room as my abuser
Speaker:or if I am in the same room, I want there to be a screen
Speaker:or I need a separate waiting room or separate
Speaker:entrances. There's a form you need to fill in to do that. You
Speaker:can't just ask and then no form is called
Speaker:special measures. You know, it's called EX
Speaker:1293 ABC. Like, whatever, you know, like, as
Speaker:in even down to the basics of something
Speaker:as stupid and just should just
Speaker:happen for you. But you should just be able to send an
Speaker:email going, here are my special requirements
Speaker:and this is what I will be doing. Now. You have to know
Speaker:the form. You have to fill in a form, you have to send it in. You have
Speaker:to get the judge's permission for that to happen. The
Speaker:judge doesn't read anything on the police file until three
Speaker:minutes before. So you're left, like in waiting to really
Speaker:anxious going, do I need to attend in person or
Speaker:not? Because, you know, and all of the
Speaker:arrangements you'd make around that if you were in the room with somebody
Speaker:that's beaten or raped or whatever they've done, to you, and
Speaker:you don't know, like, if you need to be in the same room
Speaker:as them or if you're going to be protected. It's
Speaker:obscene. And it's another little thing but it's like a
Speaker:microcosm of the system, you know, like at every
Speaker:coin, it's that exclusive.
Speaker:>> Wo0: What about if somebody's got a disability or
Speaker:neurodivergent or.
Speaker:>> Lara: I've never really even got asked those questions. I don't think I
Speaker:was in family court one day. I was sitting in the waiting
Speaker:room. like, honestly, I've been to more court hearings than
Speaker:most lawyers by this stage. Like, genuinely, I think I've spent more time in
Speaker:court than them. Like, most lawyers. Lawyers don't actually end up
Speaker:in court because they're not barristers. So I genuinely
Speaker:think I've more experience court than the majority of
Speaker:solicitors that you'd speak to. Right. Which is
Speaker:obscene. I was sitting in a
Speaker:waiting room waiting for my hearing to
Speaker:happen. First of all, what happened was security
Speaker:run through the building, like, sprinted through, and
Speaker:they run to a courtroom that was in hearing. Next
Speaker:thing, they come out with this really big, you know, like, really
Speaker:stereotypical. But if you imagine, like,
Speaker:Easter drinker, bald head, you know, like, come out
Speaker:as really stereotypical. You know, guy, two
Speaker:security guards, and he's. I don't give a fuck. Anyway,
Speaker:all of this. And then the lady that had been,
Speaker:I guess the ex partner comes out really shaken with
Speaker:her barrister. They go in a room. I'm
Speaker:seeing all of this play out live. The judges
Speaker:obviously said, this man can't go anywhere near the children for now
Speaker:or whatever's happened. I get home later that
Speaker:day and there was a news story that he's abducted the
Speaker:child. So even when you
Speaker:are in the system and you're doing the right
Speaker:thing and you get in so many, so much I can do, you
Speaker:know, like, if you're dealing with the lunatic, you're dealing with a lunatic,
Speaker:you're not safe.
Speaker:>> Wo0: Yep, yep.
Speaker:>> Lara: And because he's got parental responsibility and
Speaker:that's the key thing, you've got parental
Speaker:responsibility. I can in. In
Speaker:theory, if you're, you know, child is under
Speaker:16, you've got parental responsibility. Father
Speaker:can just take them and no one will
Speaker:intervene without a court order. And it might take
Speaker:you a year, two years
Speaker:to get a court order. What? Depending
Speaker:on how complex it's made.
Speaker:>> Wo0: We like to ask a question at the end of every
Speaker:podcast. Can you tell us one
Speaker:piece of clothing or an outfit or something
Speaker:like that that makes you feel your most
Speaker:powerful or beautiful in.
Speaker:>> Lara: Do you know what? I can. I actually can. And I
Speaker:was laughing when you mentioned this earlier because initially
Speaker:I had no idea. And then I was like, I'VE got it.
Speaker:I have this, oversized,
Speaker:like three quarter length bright,
Speaker:yellowy mustard coat. And I
Speaker:love it because you can throw it on over anything. You know, it's oversized,
Speaker:so it doesn't matter what outfit. You can go smart, you can go
Speaker:casual. But the reason it makes me
Speaker:feel brilliant and powerful is I can't even
Speaker:remember who said it to me. They're so obviously irrelevant in my
Speaker:life. It was one point that I was wearing
Speaker:a mustard dress to work and a
Speaker:conversation started and someone in the group
Speaker:said, no one can pull off mustard as I was
Speaker:wearing. So from m.
Speaker:That moment forward, I don't even think mustard used
Speaker:to be like a favourite colour of mine. But from that moment forward,
Speaker:I was like, I will wear mustard at every
Speaker:opportunity. And I channel
Speaker:that. Anytime I put my mustard coat on, I'm like, really?
Speaker:No one can wear mustard. Plenty of compliments,
Speaker:thank you very much.
Speaker:>> Wo0: I love that. Don't fucking tell me what to wear or how
Speaker:to run my business.
Speaker:>> Lara: So I need to remember the person. But you know, sadly, I think
Speaker:it was definitely a woman. It was a woman because it was,
Speaker:And they said it as I was wearing it and I was like,
Speaker:really? You watch
Speaker:me in my mustard.
Speaker:>> Wo0: That's bitchy. That is. That's pure
Speaker:bitchy. Like
Speaker:slut. No, don't. No. Violence is not the
Speaker:answer.
Speaker:>> Lara: Dying a three quarter oversized cooties.
Speaker:Wendy, do you
Speaker:know what?
Speaker:>> Annabelle: You can so tell that that is your
Speaker:favourite piece or that that is such a key item
Speaker:for you? Because Wendy, did you notice Lara's
Speaker:entire physicality and body language
Speaker:and facial expression and everything just
Speaker:did. As you started talking about the magical mustard
Speaker:coat.
Speaker:>> Lara: I could be wearing my pyjamas underneath and I'm
Speaker:strutting in my mustard coat.
Speaker:>> Wo0: Magical mustard coat.
Speaker:Laura, thank you so much for coming on. You're such a
Speaker:gem.
Speaker:>> Lara: You are so welcome. Really appreciate you inviting
Speaker:me.
Speaker:>> Annabelle: That was
Speaker:epically good.
Speaker:>> Wo0: I'm like literally holding tears back.
Speaker:That's it for today's episode of Don't Tell Me what to Wear
Speaker:or How to Run My Business. On the Woopod with me, Wendy
Speaker:Gannon. This is more than just a podcast. It's part
Speaker:of female 5 million. Head to the link in the show notes
Speaker:to find out more about our movement to empower women.
Speaker:If this episode spoke to you in any way, made you laugh,
Speaker:made you cry, or maybe inspired you, share
Speaker:it with a friend who needs to hear it. Leave us a rating and a
Speaker:review and let's keep this movement growing.
Speaker:And while I've got you here. My photography is the way that
Speaker:I fight back against the patriarchy. I empower
Speaker:female founders with the confidence to be themselves in their business,
Speaker:to really enjoy their photo shoot and actually
Speaker:love their photos so then they can grow their
Speaker:business, increase their prices and get paid what they fucking
Speaker:deserve. If you want to work with me, drop me
Speaker:a message. All the info you need to contact me is in the show
Speaker:notes. Until next time, keep doing you
Speaker:and remember, you are part of something bigger.
Speaker:Bye.
